Google Doesn’t Know Where You Are (But It Has a Good Guess)

UPDATE: See comment from Google at the end.

Users of Blackberries and many other smartphones can now push a button and the Google mapping service will figure out more or less sort of where they are.

Last month, I wrote a post called “One Reason We Need a Google Phone: Free GPS.” I was complaining that cellphone carriers, mainly Verizon, are disabling the GPS navigation systems built into phones so they can charge $10 a month for the service. I posited that a Google phone wouldn’t have such a nasty gotcha. (Actually, in Google’s very open model for its Android operating system, carriers and phone makers are free to put as many gotchas as they want into phones.)

Google today is adding a feature for some smartphones that don’t have built in GPS but can read the unique identifying number of the cell tower they are connected to. By using this information, Google can display a map of the general area they are in. (Google isn’t the first to try this sort of thing.)

Google nicely tried to design the service to take into account its limitations. When you push the button, it draws a dot at the nearest cell tower and draws a circle around it to identify the area in which it thinks you are. The screen will tell you the margin of error, typically between 500 and 2000 feet.

Google sent me a Blackberry to try this out. (My cheap Times-provided Samsung isn’t nearly smart enough to perform this trick.) A test on a bus trip from suburban New Jersey to midtown Manhattan shows that Google’s system can generally figure out what neighborhood you are in, but it overestimated its own accuracy. I was often just outside its margin of error circle. Most comically, it insisted I had arrived in New York for the 20 minutes I was stuck in the Lincoln Tunnel. Anyway, this is a nice modest tweak to the service that will help people who are totally lost, but it’s not going to provide real-time driving directions.

I spoke yesterday to Steve Lee, the product manager for Google Maps for Mobile, and I did learn a few interesting tidbits about the service.

First, Google figures out which cell towers are where by secretly enlisting the help of a million of its mobile maps users who happen to have phones with built-in GPS devices that are not locked by the carriers (that means no one who uses Verizon). These phones have been reporting to Google where they are, based on the GPS data and what cell tower they are connected to.

Before I even asked, Mr. Lee told me that Google had thought through the rather creepy privacy implications of all this. Google’s standard approach is that it logs everything it does by the unique cookie of an Internet browser (or the equivalent unique ID of a mobile phone). For the location information from GPS and cell towers, Mr. Lee said, Google has built a database with not a bit of personal user information.

When pressed, however, he also admitted there is a loophole to this. The payoff for Google from building out its mapping service is to get people to conduct searches from their cellphones. This is a nice feature. Push a button on the map software, type “Starbucks” and it will display a map of the closest source of a latte fix, based on the cell tower or GPS data. The catch, is that this query, with your location, is entered in Google’s log files along with your phone’s unique ID.

For almost everyone, this won’t matter. But if your location is really a secret, don’t ask Google to help you find coffee.

UPDATE: Barry Schnitt, of Google’s PR department, wrote with some clarifications. The service, he said, is in beta and the accuracy will improve as it is used. He took issue with the word “secretly” about how Google gathers the GPS data because such use is disclosed in the privacy policy of the service. And he also doesn’t like the headline that implies that Google has a good guess where you are. Google, as the item says, knows your cellphone’s ID number but not your name. (That is unless you use a service that requires you to log in, say Gmail for cellphones.) Mr. Schnitt’s entire note is in the comments below.

UPDATE 2: Mr. Schnitt wrote back to say I was wrong and that the unique ID used by the Google Maps system can’t be connected to any ID for GMail, which uses a separate application. So unless the map application starts to ask you to identify yourself, Google doesn’t know where you are.

Comments are no longer being accepted.

Firozali A. Mulla MBA PhD November 28, 2007 · 12:36 pm

Sir
Google Doesn’t Know Where You Are (But It Has a Good Guess)
I honestly think this as the first time that we have one ground common and away from the usual CIA and FBI routes. They have this and the big states and many super power say have this. At least I am safer that a corporation has this not with the politics and my father can find me without going to the politician, bribe them to know my whereabouts.

I thank you

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD
P.O.Box 6044
Dar-Es-Salaam
Tanzania

I can already see the cops and homeland security salivating over this. Millions of possible cheap phones giving to citizens doing all type of searches for all type of crazy things.

I wonder if I search for gun shops, hardware stores, disguise shops within one day near a few banks if Google is going to report me to the authorities?

If the news about Google giving the identity of an anonymous blogger is true than people who use the Gphones/Android phones are doing so at their own risk.

No one can say that they were not warned.

Big deal. What if I walk down a street and see a sign for a free pizza at Little Caesars. Can I click on the logo to find the nearest location relative to my position on a map? That is what I want. Will Little Caesar’s offer a $1 off when the logo is clicked and I show them the redemption coupon on my mobile when I pay? What if I say the keyword Pizza in my mobile browser will it take me to all of the locations relative to my position on a map? Right now, pretty useless if you ask me.

I want information in ‘one click’.

Google needs to go back to the think tank.

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS! DID BUSH COME UP WITH THIS WHEN HE WROTE THE PATRIOT ACT? WE NEED TO STAND UP FOR OUR PRIVACY AND IMPEACH HIM NOW

Google mobile should also be able to get the power output that the tower told the cell phone to use. The louder the output, the further away the cell phone is from the tower.
This would allow placing the cell phone user in a range of distances from the tower – say from 400 to 800 feet, rather than 0 to 1000 feet

The app that would make this technology really helpful (not that I’m not interested in finding the nearest Starbucks) is to be able to plot the least congested route into NYC taking into account the various access routes (Lincoln, Holland, GWB) and given input on my current location and the congestion of the various roads around the city or other metro areas and my final destination.

They keep adding new features…I wish they would also keep their maps up to date. I built a home on LI in 2000…and it was finished by early 2001. Yet the google maps Sat. image still shows it under construction… no landscaping, no pool, no driveway. it is a map that is 6 years old. And with the way things change in the NY areamy guess is that it is this way in other ZIP codes also.

MSFT already has this feature long time back. have you checked //msslam.com

I don’t think it would take much for Google to show your location accurately – all you’d need is for the phone to ping a signal off a few nearby towers, and then the Google mapping service could triangulate your position. I wonder how much people might pay to have that feature available from a non-GPS phone?

I recently discovered this while looking for a store in SoHo, and was pleasantly surprised that my search for the store yielded not only the address, but an approximate distance away. I thought it quite convenient, and a natural extension of the Google app that I downloaded onto my BlackBerry.

T

This is the e-mail I got this afternoon from Barry Schnitt in Google’s PR department

Hi Saul,

I saw your blog post and wanted to make a couple points of
clarification. See below.

–The story mentions that, “by secretly enlisting the help of a
million of its mobile maps users”. The Google Maps for mobile privacy
policy (//www.google.com/mobile/privacy.html) has stated:
“If you use location-based products and services, such as Google Maps
for mobile, you may be sending us location information. This
information may reveal your actual location, such as GPS data, or it
may not, such as when you submit a partial address to look at a map of
the area.”
Thus, I think “secretly” is an overstatement. If you want to say
“without proactively notifying users” to make a similar point, that
would be much more accurate.

–The story also talks about where “you are”. We don’t actually know
who the person is or reliably where the phone is. We know that
specific queries where the map is centered have come from a unique id
number. Sometimes that map will be centered because that is where you
are (centered yourself or by use of My Location), or it is centered
because that is where you are thinking of going, or it is centered
because you are curious about a location but have no intention of
actually going there. From our logs, we are not able to distinguish
these three very common use cases. Also, users have the ability to
re-set the unique client id number as often as they would like.
Finally, we do not know who “you” are and don’t have any way of
finding out. There is no name, phone number, address, email or
account login associated with this information.

–The story makes a number of criticisms of the new feature. I think
they are all valid but I think it also would have been appropriate to
add that the
feature is a beta in acknowledgment of these shortcomings and that the
accuracy and coverage will get better the more people use it. I
believe we made these points pretty clearly in the interview.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Barry


Barry Schnitt
Google Communications

People voluntarily eat little caesars pizza? :-)

On a serious note, this is a step forward, even if it is a bit clunky and has some privacy issues.

Google, as a benevolent corporation, is laughable. These guys are marketers. They make billions of dollars by targeting ads. It is amazing this company enjoys this reputation as completely trustworthy. If Microsoft did this with Windows Mobile, they would be vilifed.

“… a database with not a bit of personal user information”, is the dumbest ‘trust us’ statement ever uttered.

Everything is OK, until we realize – often too late – that it was a dumb decision after all.

NOT AVAILABLE for Palm OS (Treo) devices. Why?

Google says it works on some Palm phones-Saul

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD wrote,

At least I am safer that a corporation has this not with the politics and my father can find me without going to the politician, bribe them to know my whereabouts.

I see two problems with this perspective.

One, under Supreme Court case law, you only get privacy if you have a “reasonable expectation of privacy.” For instance, you get privacy in your house but not in the street.

As technology continues to get ever more detailed information on us, courts will consider the expectation of privacy to be less and less, because people will expect some corporation to know more and more private details of their life. As far as the courts are concerned, this will lead either to our privacy rights disappearing, or we will have to reexamine what privacy is.

The second problem is the outsourcing of government spy activities to private corporations. Though the government may not be allowed, by regulation, to search through certain private databases, it can actually contract companies to do it for them.

All this is to say that, as private corporations get increased access to personal information, the government gets increased access as well. With the above in mind, this type of technology, as it evolves, will definitely pose challenges in the privacy rights area.

P.S. I apologize for the lack of citations. This is just a comment, after all. A simple Google search will provide backup for most of the information.

Google’s web site indicates it’s rolled out the new version–replete with the location-tracking feature–for java, WinMobile, Symbian, etc.

But do they plan to develop an updated version for the iPhone? If so, how long will it take for Apple to allow us to upgrade?

You guys think that this is new?? They have been using cell phones to track people using the radio tower they are connected to for a long time. Your cell phone periodically checks to see which towers get the best signal, google is just using this to let you know this information too. It is already in the hands of security enforcement personal, if your cell phone is on, you can be tracked by it.

I’m amazed by how often people believe their data is safer with a corporation than with a country. A corporation will secretly sell you out to EVERY country on earth, just for the asking.

Look at Jerry Yang, whose Yahoo caused the death of a Chinese dissident when the authorities requested Yahoo’s data on him. Any company would do this…no CEO is empowered (or interested) in wrecking his company’s profits on the off chance that the authorities might use their data to take you away in the middle of the night.

If you dont like it the answer is simple. Don’t use a cell phone… dah!!!

Another useless gadget which wont save anyones life in a pinch, from people with more money than they can handle….lol

I like gmail, with all their deep pockets, I know they wont fold any time soon and i wont have to open another acct or run out of space.

But the kids need to do something useful with their money, dont guess our location, pinpoint it if you can….even with a proxy server.

New application of existing technology. If you want to see a social networking version, check out Jambo, it uses an amalgem of data: GPS, cell tower or IP address to show friends or contacts within user defined geographic range on any mobile device. Also searchable by a variety of criteria. Think LinkedIn taken mobile. We’re considering implementing for our membership association. Glad to see Google moving in the same direction. iPhone may have the most stylish interface, but not really unique technology.

Yeah, just what celebrities need. A phone that any papparazzi or stalker can find them with! HUMPH…

500 to 2000ft is basically completely useless

The novel 1984 was supposed to be a work of fiction. I don’t believe Mr. Orwell realized he had psychic powers. Read it, if you haven’t. If we don’t come together as a nation to “secure [our] rights, [that] Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,…..when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security” ~The Declaration of Independence of the United States of America, before Mr. Orwell’s novel becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

How is this any different from network-based location solutions that have been around for years, and are one of the main reasons why there has been a move towards more accurate location technlogies, such as GPS? The only difference I can see being that the network operators know exactly where the cell towers are so should actually be able to provide a much more accurate location fix. These services are available across a number of operators worldwide and don’t really work when accuracy is important (although they do have other benefits), so I wouldn’t get too excited about what Google is offering at the moment.

I have issues with operators as much as the next person. However, on the privacy issues, whatever you say about the likes of Verizon, they take every measure to ensure that GPS users location is protected. Furthermore, it is worth paying that $4 a month because you will get a faster, more accurate fix with applications that work, using A-GPS rather than what autonomous GPS can offer.

Google is going to do great things in location in the future, but this isn’t it!!!!